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The Andalucia Bird Society  |  Publications and Multimedia  |  Publications and Multimedia  |  Birding software & Internet  |  Topic: Bird names translations « previous next »
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Author Topic: Bird names translations  (Read 11445 times)
Peter
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« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2011, 10:21:34 pm »

Hallo Peter, I have found the ABS list very useful but Barrie's spreadsheets have the added benefit of three-way translations in alphabetical order from either English, Spanish, or scientific, whichever you need. Very useful when a Spanish birder is trying to tell you what he or she has seen.

Couldn't agree more Steve, they are extremely useful and well thought out. I think its a great idea, for those wishing to have all 3 translations with them, to print them and keep them handy whilst out birding. Your difficulty comes, accepting and agreeing with the above, that to incorporate all 3 translations into a simple and portable checklist is not practical in terms of what we had in mind to produce. Incorporating the Spanish name into our checklist (booklet) does allow you to point out the birds you want to discuss with Spanish birders, also I work alongside a great many Spanish birders and you would be horrified to learn that the majority also know the current taxonomic order as well as the scientific names, puts several of us to shame really. You will also find the great majority of foreign birders i.e. Dutch and German etc. know taxonomic order and can converse through Latin names, given the taxonomic order to work with.

The alphabetical list already exists for birds here, through the ABS download, so it seems perfectly reasonable to produce a systematic list and checklist using conventional taxonomic order (a convention followed by ALL major bird organisations including the list Barrie used from SEO).

However, who knows, the idea of doing a 'book' containing all possible permutations of language could prove a real winner and something to consider in the future for some bright spark? Of course, as was pointed out, research is changing taxonomic orders, hence scientific names and families, and to add my view to this and further complicate matters, the English names are also changing at an alarming rate, so both alphabetical and taxonomic lists soon become outdated!

Peter
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Peter
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Articles are published on my blog: http://spanishnature.blogspot.com/
For day tours in 'my' area see: http://spanishnature.com/serrania-de-ronda.html
Steve Fletcher
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« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2011, 12:54:30 pm »

I have been shamed many times by foreign birders, who as you say, not only know the english and local names for birds, but also the latin names, taxonomic order, and names in almost every language you can think of.

I am lucky, living in a small village in the mountains, and being the only non-native for 100km, i have to converse in spanish all the time, so know all the spanish names for birds, but, they also have local names which can be very confusing. One example, a Serin, ( Verdecillo in spanish ), is usually referred to as a canario del campo, or country canary.
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Steve
Barrie
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« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2011, 03:53:27 pm »

I should point out that they are not really MY lists - as Peter pointed out I simply derived them from an SEO list that is freely available.

So don't forget that, quite apart from the issue of order, there is a fundamental difference in that the spreadsheet I produced, being taken from the SEO list, is for the WHOLE of Spain and the data are quite old (2005). On the other hand the ABS list contains, I believe, just birds of Andalucia and will be more up to date.

Thus, for instance, the information on breeding status will differ. But as a non-resident of Andalucia I also go to Extremadura, the Picos and the Pyrenees etc., so a list that covers the whole of Spain suited my needs.

As I said some time ago, the basic spreadsheet has other Spanish languages too (Catalan, Basque and Galicican -  though not local county names!). But something I did not say was that it also has the Taxonomic Family Names and is actually ordered taxonomically. But as the preamble to the SEO List says, *which* taxonomic order? before it then goes on the give the source for the order it used (thus making it clear that there is not universal agreement and different publications may well differ.)

There are then columns of numbers to allow alphabetical sorting into other languages. (In the English version the alphabetical sorting is the form Noun-Adjective e.g. Swan, Mute,  though normal name e.g. Mute Swan, is also given.)

And if anyone were interested it has the B and D List birds as well as the A and C list ones.

Unfortunately, at 200k, it is bigger than I am allowed to post to the Forum. But if anyone wants it, just ask.

The lists I was able to post were simply derivatives of that list, reordered alphabetically, and without the B and D list birds. For brevity, the taxonomic family and breeding status etc. were also omitted.

Barrie
« Last Edit: August 06, 2011, 05:23:42 pm by Barrie » Logged
Steve25
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« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2011, 10:15:27 am »

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Peter
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« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2011, 11:20:00 am »

Steve I did not take your post as any sort of criticism, in fact the postings here have been very instructive and interesting. I also believe Barrie's efforts on the translations and making them available on here as downloads is highly commendable. On a personal level, the spreadsheets are appreciated as much for someone else doing something positive as for their practical value!

I hope I am as good a listener as I am at talking, so I understood a point that to some people the checklist in its present format (taxonomic order) might not be of value or use. After discussion we decided to ask members if they wished to receive their free copy or not, based I have to say purely on economic reasons i.e. postage and releasing unwanted copies for resale.

Peter
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Peter
For great birding and wildlife tours.
www.worldwidebirdingtours.com

Articles are published on my blog: http://spanishnature.blogspot.com/
For day tours in 'my' area see: http://spanishnature.com/serrania-de-ronda.html
Barrie
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« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2011, 06:30:16 pm »

Hallo Peter, I have found the ABS list very useful but Barrie's spreadsheets have the added benefit of three-way translations in alphabetical order from either English, Spanish, or scientific, whichever you need. Very useful when a Spanish birder is trying to tell you what he or she has seen.
I think its a great idea, for those wishing to have all 3 translations with them, to print them and keep them handy whilst out birding. Your difficulty comes, accepting and agreeing with the above, that to incorporate all 3 translations into a simple and portable checklist is not practical in terms of what we had in mind to produce.

My own solution has been to print off and carry with me just the Spanish alphabetical list. This enables a Spaniard to find a bird (or even me if I can understand his Spanish) and this gives me the English name.

For translations INTO Spanish, I have simply gone through my Collins Field Guide and written in the Spanish. (It already has the scientific names.)

Barrie
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Barrie
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« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2012, 08:06:16 pm »

The bird name translations lists are now superceded by the list produced by the ABS. I have therefore removed the files.

I am in the process of producing revised lists that are changed to correspond with the new information given in the ABS lists.

Barrie
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The Andalucia Bird Society  |  Publications and Multimedia  |  Publications and Multimedia  |  Birding software & Internet  |  Topic: Bird names translations « previous next »
 


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